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SLIDES
& TRANSCRIPTS
Monday,
May 5, 2003
Commentary:
Pro
John
M. Kirkwood, M.D.
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| Slide
1: |
This
is actually an easier task than I think Paul has. You all have
demonstrated enormous tenacity, because I think to sit through
nine hours and still be awake is a challenge of itself.
I would remind
you, as Allan Lerner, who was my first mentor, suggested to me
34 years ago, if every patient that we see with melanoma just
lived long enough, they would all relapse and die of this disease.
That sobering
thought actually hadn't been drilled in by anything so much as
the recent report from Rona McKai(?), but echoed by a patient
we just saw a month ago, who had an allograft of kidney from an
unfortunate auto accident, whose donation happened a decade after
a thin, primary melanoma, unknown to have metastatic disease,
and then evolved widespread donor metastatic melanoma. So, this
is a very clever bugger of a tumor.
I think the
fact that we have any progress may, in some measure, be worth
noting. So, I think, as Peg has talked about in the morning, the
case fatality of this disease has fallen.
That is a
small source of comfort. Death and relapse are more accurately
predicted now and I think this is also, to us, a boon.
For metastatic
disease, I think there is no question in anybody's mind here who
has ever used hydozile-2, it works. It doesn't work very often,
but it works.
Although Lex won't agree, I think we have settled on high dose
interferon alpha as an adjuvant therapy for high risk melanoma.
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| Slide
2: |
So,
I think the progress that I see, as I look at this disease, is
that many clinically useless regimens have been discarded.
The unfortunate
truth is that we haven't understood why we failed. I think this
is really a critical caveat for us in all new trials, that we
study every single one to learn at least, if we fail, why we failed.
Prognostic
factors have been refined, but the dismal admission is, we still
have no serum markers, we still have no way simply, as in many
other tumors, to follow the course of the burden of disease, and
this is a critical deficit, as we will come back to discuss.
We have, as
we have heard this morning in elegant talks in the start of the
day, new genes that are associated with disease and progression,
but the unfortunate truth is that we have not a single one of
them that has made it as a foundation for a therapeutic intervention.
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3: |
So,
for IL-2 and for interferon alpha, I think the unfortunate truth
that prohibits real advance of this field is that we don't know
the mechanisms of either of these putative immunological therapies.
They are both approved at only the highest doses, something we
could come back to muse about, but this sort of chemotherapy-like
development that got these into approval at the highest dosages
has clearly been a major impediment to the adoption of either
of these regimens across the world.
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4: |
We
have a need of markers of disease progression, of the disease
itself, because these would allow us to cull away from the patients
that we treat 100 of, the 40 or 50 who will never, and would never
relapse, even if we didn't treat them.
We need to
find mechanisms of action to follow because, in fact, if we could
do this, we could further cull the treated population to remove
those who are not destined to respond to these therapy with a
therapeutic index that would accordingly rise.
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| Slide
5: |
We
have a promise from I think many new disease markers that we have
heard about this morning.
We have heard
multiple CD8 and CD4 epitopes that are lining up in such numerous
fashion that the real problem we face is how to address these,
how to incorporate these into clinical trials.
We have heard
from many other groups, of course, that there are data to suggest
that immune responses are correlated with disease outcome, and
these I will come back to discuss.
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6: |
The
leads for the future for us, at least, inside ECOG, come from
a trial that has accrued 112 patients as of last week, is formally
closed as of next week, called E6096. This is a two-factorial
trial which tests the three available peptides of Mart, melan-A,
GP100 and tyrosinase, given together in all the recipients of
this therapy in this trial, 28 to receive the peptides alone,
the peptides plus GM-CSF, the peptides plus interferon alpha,
or the peptides plus both of those cytokines.
The good news
is that we have immune responses from a third of the patients
that we have assayed out past the third month of therapy, and
that we have correlation of immune responses with disease outcome.
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| Slide
7: |
So,
this is the design of the trial, two by two factorial, as you
see here, and I have belabored that probably long enough.
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8: |
As
we submitted the abstract to ASCO, these were the data. We now
have 51 patients analyzed past three months of therapy. The trends
hold up. We are still analyzing this data and still assaying the
serum and the lymphocytes, and all of this will be mature, I hope,
by the next month's presentation at ASCO.
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9: |
The
leads for the future are that we have many new CD4 epitopes. Jeff
has already mentioned the CD4 isotope, Mart melan-A 5173 that
Azan Zarour defined in 1998.
We can select these that bind to many, many broader MHC class
II specificities, therefore, will not have the limitation that
we presently have of selecting patients according to MHC-2 phenotype.
We have the
plan to augment from CD8 to CD4 epitopes, our vaccine trials.
Inside the University of Pittsburgh cancer institute, we have
more than half completed a trial testing the helper and the killer
epitopes of melan-A.
Craig Slingluff
has written and, within the next month, will activate a trial
that brings together 12 CD8 epitopes, half a dozen CD4 epitopes,
of the available lineage and cancer testes antigens.
Finally, we have the ability to induce Th1 immunity, to polarize
dendritic cells to get potentially better responses
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10: |
and,
as I mentioned already -- I don't need to twice mention -- we
have phase IIs that have grown out of these phase I trials.
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| Slide
11: |
The
most interesting approaches of the last month have been working
with Bill Bigby and Billy Dade in Pittsburgh, to think about how
the incredibly powerful new technology of SELDI-TOF-MS that was
discussed earlier today, may be brought to bear on the problems
that we face in treating patients with melanoma.
With the samples
that Steve Rosenberg has provided to Mike, this analysis is already
well underway. With ECOG's willingness, we will expand this to
actually ask questions about patients who entered the last intergroup
trial, 880 of whom we have serial serums from, over a period of
a year or two of their entry into this trial, now more than a
third of whom have relapsed, and a substantial fraction who have
died, where we can ask, as Finestein says, retroactively, whom
it was, was going to relapse at the outset on the basis of the
serum marker profile and then, with the intervention of either
GMK as a vaccine, perhaps a placebo control, or from the interferon
alpha in the active arm, what was the difference that was induced
by the interferon in the proteomic profile that was associated
with response to this therapy.
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12: |
So,
beyond this, we have a vast breadth of things that are exciting
to me to think about. One is that Don Morton said, there are three
therapies for melanoma -- as you have all heard this at SSO --
surgery, surgery and surgery.
So, thinking
twice or thrice about this, we wondered why this might be the
case. In fact, I had better not go forward now, but I will show
you in a minute, there may be data to suggest that the Th2 bias
of patients who have active metastatic disease is what the problem
is.
In fact, when you can reduce a tumor, whether you reduce it maybe
by chemotherapy, certainly, in this case, by surgery, you can
actually restore the capacity to induce a Th1 phenotype.
Certainly,
there are many cytokines that have the possibility, as Mike Atkins
has talked about, to repolarize the T cell response. With the
CpGs, we hope to induce the plasmacytoid CD for better immunization
with ESO1 vaccine trials shortly to commence in Pittsburgh, and
with DC1 induced either by cytokines or NK cells with Powell Kalinski(?)
with Mike Lotze, we will test the role that these play in melanoma
patients over the very near term.
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13: |
So,
this is the data from Tatsumi Storkas and from our group, suggesting
that patients who have active disease in the black spots never
develop a Th1 response, and that it is only those who have no
apparent disease -- the open symbols -- that we see a Th1 response
to a variety of antigens.
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14: |
So,
what have we done in the clinical trials that we have undertaken?
I think the cooperative groups in the United States have decided
upon an evidence-based phase III program that, for the present,
this will be based on the evidence we have with high dose interferon
alpha, trying to dissect the activity of this regimen using only
the induction phase in E1697, which is now intergroup and international
with the participation of Peter Hersey's group and many others
from Australia.
As Larry Flaherty has talked about, and Mike as well, a SWOG 0008
based upon the data with chemobiotherapy still makes sense, because
there may be differences in the NED situation from the active
disease situation, in the responsiveness to chemobiotherapy that
deserved to be tested at this time.
In our own
institution, we decided that the mechanism question is the biggest
question, and that a neoadjuvant approach of high dose interferon
in patients before resection of palpable nodal disease would allow
us to get to this.
We have now
treated 11 patients with high dose interferon before resection
of their disease, with a surgical biopsy before this, and they
have already begun SAGE and expression array analyses to ask what,
in fact, is induced in the tumor tissue, in the nodal tissue,
that may be associated with the interferon effect.
Finally, as
I talked about already, the 1694 serum bank will be a huge asset,
if it allows us to get to the question of the proteomic profile
of disease, a quantitation of disease and, finally, the impact
of interferon in this subset.
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15: |
So,
the response to vaccines and other biologicals, I think, are clearly
best tested in the NED situation.
We have taken this from the 1694 trial evidence. We brought this
now into the SWOG 0008 intergroup trial. 1696, which I showed
you already, is the peptide plus or minus GM-CSF plus or minus
interferon intervention in metastatic disease, is the template
from which we have derived the intergroup 4697 trial that Dr.
Atkins already talked about, testing the same three peptides,
plus or minus GM-CSF in resected, NED patients, and where 600
of these patients, now approaching our 300 mark, will be required
to ask this question powerfully enough to get to a clinical conclusion.
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16: |
So,
the origins and the outcomes of progress to date, I think we have
had to be willing to get the rubber to the pavement.
The traction
and the data that we need will only come from phase III trials.
The big question is what ought to be the next phase III trial.
Clearly, the
consumption of resources, time, effort, has daunted us over the
last several years. We have been in a stall and we haven't really
developed a replacement in the largest single subset, the patient
group with a single node involved. So, I think this will clearly
be part of the topic for discussion tomorrow.
Translation from the events to the adjuvant sphere is the second
major conclusion. Clearly, here the risk is that we expose a lot
of patients who can never benefit.
So, we have
got to be very careful that we neither are accelerating disease
or having unseen toxicities from the interventions that we are
going to test in the adjuvant setting.
Translation
studies in the human, I think, is the essence of the question.
I think with the exception of this elegant data that Jim Mulé
just presented, we are trying to avoid mouse models, to avoid
cell line data, and I think the real model has two feet.
The critical
thing here is for relevant intermediate end points, immunological,
genomic, proteomic and cellomic, and there I will stop.
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